tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post9219128901075539818..comments2024-03-26T01:10:13.720+00:00Comments on Teach Me Tonight: Betina Krahn - The Book of True DesiresE. M. Selingerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00426524354823232002noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-45388759527891985442007-08-28T14:42:00.000+01:002007-08-28T14:42:00.000+01:00Sandra, my former critique partner, Rebecca Gault,...Sandra, my former critique partner, Rebecca Gault, wrote a contemporary romance <A HREF="http://german.about.com/library/blrev_intoblue.htm" REL="nofollow">Into the Blue</A>featuring two German heroes, neither a Nazi!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-73218677350890298962007-08-25T12:24:00.000+01:002007-08-25T12:24:00.000+01:00I think the reader is supposed to laugh in a lot o...I think the reader is supposed to laugh in a lot of places. <A HREF="http://www.cherryforums.com/index.php?topic=1182.msg12981#msg12981" REL="nofollow">Krahn's said</A>, for example, that "There were places that I laughed out loud as I wrote his [Goodnight's] snark".<BR/><BR/>The trouble is that although I did find moments of humour, I don't think it was in the places, or for the reasons, the author intended.Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-64751483381285170582007-08-25T12:01:00.000+01:002007-08-25T12:01:00.000+01:00Goodness. Laura, this book is starting to sound l...Goodness. Laura, this book is starting to sound like comedy gold.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-35616240844364761712007-08-25T11:43:00.000+01:002007-08-25T11:43:00.000+01:00Some of Cordelia's observations on race and nation...<I>Some of Cordelia's observations on race and nationality sound like a naïve or first-time traveler, even today. So I find it somewhat plausible that her character, as presented in that time, might truly have said such things.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, it's certainly plausible, particularly if one's putting the novel in the context of the adventure novels of Buchan and Rider Haggard.<BR/><BR/>In the context of the novel, however, Cordelia isn't presented as naive - in fact, there's emphasis put on how culturally aware she is because she takes the indigenous peoples teacups instead of less respectful baubles. And, indeed, when she hands over the teacups to the leaders of the indigenous people they accept them eagerly. Here's the scene at the first village they get to:<BR/><BR/><I>The people recognized the Platanos and welcomed them warmly. Most had seen English-speaking men before, but "yanqui" women were a novelty. They were fascinated by Cordelia's long, burnished hair and amber eyes and by Hedda's split skirts and flower-trimmed sunhat [...]<BR/><BR/>In gratitude for their hospitality, Cordelia presented the three elders with teacups and saucers [...they drink tea]<BR/><BR/>Their first sips produced doubtful looks, but after several additions of honey, they began to smile and even ask for seconds.</I> (157-58)<BR/><BR/>This scene seems to suggest that Cordelia's right about the effectiveness of offering teacups.<BR/><BR/><I>But in terms of telling the story, a naïve narrator can give the reader a flat or myopic view of the other characters.</I><BR/><BR/>Cordelia isn't the narrator. We get to know a lot about what she thinks from dialogue. Goodnight's feelings are often revealed via his diary entries, which are included in the text. There is third person narration, but it's mixed in with the dialogue and sometimes slides into the thoughts of the characters, so it can be hard to tell where the narration ends and the characters' thoughts begin. For example,<BR/><BR/><I>"I must ask you leave, senor."<BR/><BR/> She strode to the door and threw it open, finding two beefy men with coarse faces and hardened eyes filling the threshold. She fell back a step. Clearly, Castille had come prepared to take the scrolls by whatever means necessary.</I> (87)<BR/><BR/>I can't be sure if that description of "coarse faces" is the author/narrator's opinion or something that Cordelia thinks. I suspect it's the narrator, but if so, the narrator seems to have attitudes which are very like, if not identical to, Cordelia's.<BR/><BR/>It's easier to tell when Cordelia and Goodnight aren't present. For example here's the Cuban hotel manager being threatened by Castille:<BR/><BR/><I>The manager's protest netted him a crack on the head from a rifle butt and some individual attention from a tall, sallow-faced Spaniard whose elegant dress and refined air belied a ready appetite for gritty techniques of persuasion.<BR/>"Where are the Americanos?" Alejandro Castille demanded, backing the rotund manager against the wall of the lobby [...]<BR/><BR/>The doughy little manager pointed with a shaking finger</I> (97-98)<BR/><BR/>There you have the tall, austere-looking Spaniard with an interest in subtle tortures (I'm getting a feeling that this draws on stereotypes about Spanish inquisitors and the <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend" REL="nofollow"><I>Leyenda negra</I></A>) and the fat, cowardly, ineffectual Hispanic. Note also that while Castille's entire sentence must be in Spanish (since he's Spanish and is speaking to a Cuban), one word is in Spanish and the rest are in English, perhaps giving the impression that he's speaking in broken/bad English.<BR/><BR/><I>Did you feel the other characters were depicted negatively to make Cordelia appear more perfect in contrast?</I><BR/><BR/>Not really, no. Cordelia, right from the start, is depicted as being incredibly beautiful, intelligent, brave and knowledgeable. With regards to her attitudes to non-Americans, the hero has the same attitudes towards people of other races that Cordelia does, so both hero and heroine are accepting of the stereotypes. He does eventually choose to throw off the stereotype he's been working with himself (the British one) but it's done in a way which validates the stereotype retrospectively. The other characters (e.g. the Spanish villain, the flirtatious witch) continue to act in accordance with their particular stereotypes, so their actions reinforce rather than undermine or question the stereotypes.<BR/><BR/>That, I think, is the biggest problem. The plot itself reinforces the stereotypes, both on the level of the characterisation and in the way in which the novel concludes with the triumph of American civilization which on a military level brings freedom to the less developed world and on an intellectual level takes the resources of the less developed world and turns them into scientifically tested medicines.Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-53123012412362252002007-08-24T23:47:00.000+01:002007-08-24T23:47:00.000+01:00I haven't read the book, but the quoted passages a...I haven't read the book, but the quoted passages are very interesting.<BR/><BR/>Some of Cordelia's observations on race and nationality sound like a naïve or first-time traveler, even today. So I find it somewhat plausible that her character, as presented in that time, might truly have said such things. However, that doesn't make it appealing to read. Did you feel the other characters were depicted negatively to make Cordelia appear more perfect in contrast?<BR/><BR/>There's often a difficult tension between being anachronistic and being offensive. (Or being realistic and rendering a character unappealing.) I'm not a proponent of writing books only about nice, likable, politically correct, well educated/traveled characters. But in terms of telling the story, a naïve narrator can give the reader a flat or myopic view of the other characters. So even if depicting an unpleasantly racist character is intentional, if that's the primary point of view it can damage the storytelling as a whole. (Presumably, given it's a romance, Krahn didn't intend Cordelia as a <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Caulfield" REL="nofollow">Holden Caulfield</A>-like figure!) And if the racist depictions are unintentional, or pervade the other characters' viewpoints... that's a whole different issue.<BR/><BR/>The PC issue is interesting. There certainly can be a "cult of nice", and a seeming eagerness to take offense. But as you say, political correctness used properly serves important purposes. I think the most common reason it goes wrong is that it's used to impose on others (which seems like the opposite of the intent). In fiction, I don't demand PCness--but it sounds like the lack of it came across as a set of attitudes that detracted from Cordelia's credibility and likability.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-46149391291369111182007-08-24T18:46:00.000+01:002007-08-24T18:46:00.000+01:00I was trying to be subtleAnd I'm a bit of a dimwit...<I>I was trying to be subtle</I><BR/><BR/>And I'm a bit of a dimwit, it seems. *g*Sandra Schwabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15496019392789508611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-28063934312701205962007-08-24T11:50:00.000+01:002007-08-24T11:50:00.000+01:00Did she mean the upper-crust English stereotype?Ye...<I>Did she mean the upper-crust English stereotype?</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, I think so. There's definitely a class element to the particular type of stereotype that Krahn's using. With regards to the English/British distinction, I have a feeling that the English themselves might well have thought of themselves interchangeably as English or British (Scots such as John Buchan, another writer of adventure novels, also switched between Scottish and British identities). "Britishness" was perhaps stronger then than it is now, because of the existence of the Empire, but even today it's not uncommon to find people who sometimes refer to themselves as "British" and at other times "English".<BR/><BR/>What I don't know is when this particular stereotype developed. It's there in Jules Verne's Phineas Fogg (who's described as English): "Calm and phlegmatic, with a clear eye, Mr. Fogg seemed a perfect type of that English composure which Angelica Kauffmann has so skilfully represented on canvas" (<I><A HREF="http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/lit/adventure/AroundtheWorldinEightyDays/chap2.html" REL="nofollow">Around the World in Eighty Days</A></I>).<BR/><BR/>I do know that the stereotype of the Spanish as presented in Krahn's novel is not one which was present in the Early Modern period:<BR/><BR/><I>Though modern views of Golden-Age Spain perhaps tend to stress Spanish seriousness it should be remembered [...] that in Renaissance Europe Spaniards had a special reputation as comics, excelling particularly in droll or witty sayings and behaviour. This characteristic was noted by Il Pontano at the beginning of the sixteenth century and on more than one occcasion by Castiglione in </I>Il Cortegiano<I>.</I> (Russell 320)<BR/><BR/>Russell, P. E.. "<I>Don Quixote</I> as a Funny Book." <I>Modern Language Review</I> 64 (1969): 312-326.Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-62600564271171318222007-08-24T09:21:00.000+01:002007-08-24T09:21:00.000+01:00I also wonder at the use of the *British* stereoty...I also wonder at the use of the *British* stereotype. Did she mean the upper-crust English stereotype?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-73213700290015711952007-08-23T16:16:00.000+01:002007-08-23T16:16:00.000+01:00Oh, it's worse than that. What I meant was: in con...<I>Oh, it's worse than that. What I meant was: in contemporary romances German characters are inevitably Nazis. *head desk*</I><BR/><BR/>I was trying to be subtle, so I referred to nationalism (cue Basil Fawlty saying <A HREF="http://www.fawltysite.net/episode06.htm" REL="nofollow">"Don't mention the war!"</A>). And that's a programme that's absolutely chock full of national stereotypes.Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-3910624098930695062007-08-23T15:52:00.000+01:002007-08-23T15:52:00.000+01:00Yes, not a lot of romance heroes are GermanOh, it'...<I>Yes, not a lot of romance heroes are German</I><BR/><BR/>Oh, it's worse than that. What I meant was: in contemporary romances German characters are inevitably Nazis. *head desk* <BR/><BR/>Those early collections of folkliterature were certainly inspired by some amount of ("positive") nationalism and could be seen as an attempt to preserve some sort of national identity at a time when German countries were either occupied by the French or at least under Napoleon's thumb. (Herder is an exception, since he collected folk songs and ballads from the whole of Europe, e.g. he also used translations of some of Percy's ballads.) By the same token, Robert Burns started to write in Scots. Only the literature of English Romanticism remained untouched by elements of nationalism. But that's easy to explain since the English culture was the dominant culture in Britain. <BR/><BR/>This element of nationalism is less apparent in genuinely Romantic fairy tales and novels, such as Brentano's story of Peter Schlemihl (who was stupid enough to sell his shadow for a magic purse instead of the mandrake! *g*)Sandra Schwabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15496019392789508611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-38892245255954315272007-08-22T21:52:00.000+01:002007-08-22T21:52:00.000+01:00She only has sex with him after he's stopped foldi...She only has sex with him after he's stopped folding socks.<BR/><BR/><I>it could be worse: you could be German...</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, not a lot of romance heroes are German. I started thinking along the lines of the German Romantics as a possibility, wandered off to Wikipedia and found a <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantics#Nationalism" REL="nofollow">an entry there</A> which echoed what you'd said in your Unusual Historials post about folktales but then I noticed the context:<BR/><BR/><I>nationalism inspired the collection of folklore by such people as the Brothers Grimm, the revival of old epics as national, and the construction of new epics as if they were old, as in the </I>Kalevala<I>, compiled from Finnish tales and folklore, or </I>Ossian<I>, where the claimed ancient roots were invented. The view that fairy tales, unless contaminated from outside, literary sources, were preserved in the same form over thousands of years, was not exclusive to Romantic Nationalists, but fit in well with their views that such tales expressed the primordial nature of a people.</I>Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-46492671772464967952007-08-22T21:17:00.000+01:002007-08-22T21:17:00.000+01:00"Tall, bloodless, and British"And still the heroin..."Tall, bloodless, and British"<BR/><BR/>And still the heroine has sex with him? When it's a truth universally acknowledged that "[c]ontinental people have sex life; the English have hot-water bottles" (from George Mikes, HOW TO BE AN ALIEN). *g*<BR/><BR/>But to be more serious, I can well imagine how such stereotypes might put off British readers. However, it could be worse: you could be German...Sandra Schwabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15496019392789508611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-83800797333408148932007-08-22T16:05:00.000+01:002007-08-22T16:05:00.000+01:00I haven't read any of Krahn's other works, so I ca...I haven't read any of Krahn's other works, so I can't make comparisons, but I bought this one because I'd enjoyed <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0515141704/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-0866904-6067034#reader-link" REL="nofollow">the excerpt</A>. Cordelia is very much the Gibson Girl, <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Art_Lesson%2C_Gibson.jpg" REL="nofollow">talented, beautiful and very much admired by the men who surround her</A>.<BR/><BR/>The reviewer at <A HREF="http://www.theromancereader.com/krahn-book.html" REL="nofollow">The Romance Reader</A>, Mary Benn, observed that "Krahn captures several elements of the late Victorian adventure tale (Rider Haggard, anyone?)". I agree, because the writing seemed to evoke the era in which it was set, but for me that historical authenticity became problematic when it extended to the depiction of the non-American characters. The comparison Benn made is interesting because Rider Haggard's been described as someone whose "set of beliefs included provocative variations of spiritualism, imperialism, racism, and radicalism" (<A HREF="http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/birs/bir32.htm" REL="nofollow">Kathleen McCormack</A>).<BR/><BR/><I>On a more general note, romance books, which are so formulaic, lend themselves to overuse of stereo-typing.</I><BR/><BR/>They can do, certainly, though there is a difference between <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetype" REL="nofollow">archetypes</A> and <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype" REL="nofollow">stereotypes</A>. There's also the problem that what one person considers an archetype might be thought by another person to be the epitome of detailed characterisation. Readers can bring a lot to the text, both in terms of previous reading experience which makes them see patterns/archetypes/stereotypes or in emotional investment which helps them to flesh out the characters and make them live in their own minds.Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-11739212540384384522007-08-22T13:51:00.000+01:002007-08-22T13:51:00.000+01:00I was drawn to The Book of True Desires for its se...I was drawn to The Book of True Desires for its setting and the hope of a good adventure story. I've read other Krahn books and really enjoyed them--including The Husband Test and The Wife Test.<BR/><BR/>The Book of True Desires is not as polished or as detailed as Ms. Krahn's other books and it felt like I was reading a different writer's work.<BR/><BR/>Is Ms. Krahn using blantant stereo-typing to evoke the sensibilities of books written 90 years ago--as an attempt to create atmosphere--or is it a shortcut so that she never has to create original descriptions of her characters? <BR/><BR/>The treatment of Yazkuz the most grevious, in my opinion. The healer or wise-woman should be revered and respected, and her knowledge passed on. In her contempt and dismissal of Yazkuz, Cordelia (and Ms. Krahn) is reinforcing the inferior position of women and dismissing that knowledge as unimportant. The worst part was that after Yazkuz helps Cordelia and Hart achieve their goal, Ms. Krahn reverts to describing Yazkuz as an unlearned and ignorant savage, as if she is only a vessel for a spirit or higher power and has little to no real skills or wisdom herself.<BR/><BR/>In contrast, the Abbess in The Husband Test and The Wife Test starts out as a stereotype, but through the books, she develops into something much more rich and nuanced. Ms. Krahn is wonderfully capable of developing characters and hopefully she'll do more with her next book.<BR/><BR/>On a more general note, romance books, which are so formulaic, lend themselves to overuse of stereo-typing.<BR/><BR/>What authors/titles do people recommend if a reader wants something less formulaic? <BR/><BR/>Madeline Hunter is one writer whose characters (some of them, anyway) occasionally defy the standard roles of their time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com