tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post5471840696778581111..comments2024-03-26T01:10:13.720+00:00Comments on Teach Me Tonight: Rosy Thornton - More Than Love LettersE. M. Selingerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00426524354823232002noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-25583267857063437822007-08-08T01:29:00.000+01:002007-08-08T01:29:00.000+01:00Given what we've been discussing on the thread abo...<I>Given what we've been discussing on the thread about The Secret Pearl I just wanted to say that More Than Love Letters does include a character who's been sexually abused, and that's not resolved in a happy, easy way. But the person this happens to is not the heroine and this is certainly not a book in which the hero takes advantage of the heroine.</I><BR/><BR/>*nod* I saw that mentioned in your view. I think it's important for it to be dealt with in literature. Portrayals of sexual abuse get various reactions from me, depending on the explicitness of the depiction, etc., but the only time they really make me sick is when the story implies a value judgment that says the heroine is a "good woman" because she surrenders again to her abuser, and learns to love him.<BR/><BR/>Would Fleur be the heroine of the story if she'd got angry and, as was perfectly within her rights, never wanted to see or be near Adam again, and not softened toward him, let alone come to love him? No. Would she have been considered by the narrative as worthy of happily ever after with another man who hadn't abused her? No. <BR/><BR/>An angry Fleur who had to reconcile her anger without swinging into the completely opposite direction and seeking union with her abuser wouldn't exist. Her story wouldn't be told in that book (or by that author, ever? I haven't read all her novels, so I can't be sure) and her voice wouldn't be heard. I say this because that female voice is often conspicuously silent in Romance. The book is, imo, uplifting a behavior pattern that has hurt women and continues to hurt women.<BR/><BR/>I think this in part because I see sexual and physical abuse as a tool of operant conditioning often used by men, in particular, to emotionally control women by "softening them up" with violence combined with "kindness" to make them acquiesce.<BR/><BR/>This seems a common pattern in partner abuse, child abuse, etc.<BR/><BR/>That makes me spitting mad, to be honest.<BR/><BR/>And the fact that Adam is only really a better alterative in comparison to a "much worse" man just makes it all the more galling, imo. Along with the fact that I don't think Adam would have been "sorry" if Fleur hadn't been a virgin. I think he would have been able to consign her neatly into the whore side of the extremely nasty virgin/whore value judgment scale in his head. <BR/><BR/>The author seems to be saying that women are (or <I>were</I>. this is a historical) (a) a victim class that can't realistically escape abuse, and (b) that they can't expect to meet a man who won't hurt them, just hope for one who will hurt them less, and be sorry, and (c) they should appreciate the men who hurt them less, and forgive.<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying that the story of a woman who handles abuse the way Fleur did shouldn't be told, but the author should indicate that her way isn't the only way, and certainly not the only <I>right</I> way.<BR/><BR/>Uh, bringing things back on topic: I'm looking forward to (if that's the right phrase to use here) seeing how Rosy Thornton handles abuse in her story. I think that her take on it won't be problematic the way Balogh's was.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-18357360044138593492007-08-08T00:30:00.000+01:002007-08-08T00:30:00.000+01:00I hope you like it, Angel. Given what we've been d...I hope you like it, Angel. Given what we've been discussing on <A HREF="http://teachmetonight.blogspot.com/2007/08/mary-balogh-secret-pearl-1.html" REL="nofollow">the thread about <I>The Secret Pearl</I></A> I just wanted to say that <I>More Than Love Letters</I> does include a character who's been sexually abused, and that's not resolved in a happy, easy way. But the person this happens to is not the heroine and this is certainly not a book in which the hero takes advantage of the heroine.Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-49211303029905608602007-08-07T23:04:00.000+01:002007-08-07T23:04:00.000+01:00I wanted to thank you for discussing this book. It...I wanted to thank you for discussing this book. It sounds like it's right up my street; I like the epistolatory format, and I like it when the world of a Romance story is large enough to include social issues, other important relationships beside the main romance, etc.<BR/><BR/>Thanks. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-59626871908482816212007-08-04T23:13:00.000+01:002007-08-04T23:13:00.000+01:00Chick lit - does the heroine go to work on an egg?...Chick lit - does the heroine <A HREF="http://www.gotoworkonanegg.co.uk/" REL="nofollow">go to work on an egg</A>? Is the male protagonist a good egg or not? Is something eggstraordinary about to happen in the heroine's life? Will she crack up?<BR/><BR/>Will I stop making bad puns? At least I know the answer to that question, and it's "yes".Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-42410812349190948972007-08-04T12:27:00.000+01:002007-08-04T12:27:00.000+01:00Maybe not the chick(en), but certainly the egg!htt...Maybe not the chick(en), but certainly the egg!<BR/><BR/>http://www.trashionista.com/2007/04/book_covers_are.html<BR/><BR/>Rosy xAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-37879076342773157082007-08-04T12:08:00.000+01:002007-08-04T12:08:00.000+01:00I must admit, for example, to having been somewhat...<I>I must admit, for example, to having been somewhat mystified by the butterflies on my cover - but butterflies were appearing on quite a number of chick lit covers at the time</I><BR/><BR/>Have they ever tried chicks on chick lit covers? Just thinking that in this particular case that could possibly have been understood to represent the <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roly-Poly_Bird" REL="nofollow">Roly-Poly bird</A> which does appear in the text. Or perhaps one can imagine that the butterflies have something to do with the nature walk?Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-30289253037341070982007-08-04T08:21:00.000+01:002007-08-04T08:21:00.000+01:00RfP: I couldn't agree more. With commercial fictio...RfP: I couldn't agree more. With commercial fiction - like romance - it is publishers not authors who dictate the jacket blurb, cover design, etc.. The tendency with the blurb is very much to summarise the early stages of the plot and not so much to highlight themes. Cover graphics and things like the 'shout line' you would imagine might be more likely to reflect the themes/tone of the book. But I suspect that more often what happens is that the publisher's marketing team is simply trying to reflect current vogues and hence tap into what they hope will sell, rather than to represent in any terribly truthful way what lies between the covers. I must admit, for example, to having been somewhat mystified by the butterflies on my cover - but butterflies were appearing on quite a number of chick lit covers at the time, and I was told they 'gave it a suitably whimsical feel'.<BR/><BR/>(And thanks for your nice comments, Laura!)<BR/><BR/>RosyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-50786219587926157072007-08-02T23:28:00.000+01:002007-08-02T23:28:00.000+01:00As a reader, I select books in part for plot, but ...As a reader, I select books in part for plot, but at least as much for other factors--language, unusualness, etc. I also look for books that are <I>"interesting for some reason (e.g. their theme, structure, or significance in the history of the genre)".</I> So a critique <I>or</I> review that leans toward the analytical can sell me a book, often more effectively than a plot summary. (<A HREF="http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1352/" REL="nofollow">Robin said</A> much the same on SmartBitches yesterday.)<BR/><BR/>Promotion and book cover copy that's all plot summary can fail to get my attention. All too often the plot summary reduces the book to an assembly-line product, too similar to other books on the shelf. I was turned off a Jennifer Weiner novel by a partial plot summary; the actual story turned out to have far more depth than was implied on the cover. My silliest recent example was a plot summary for <A HREF="http://www.readforpleasure.com/2007/07/what-literary-romance-novel-am-i.html" REL="nofollow"><I>Love in the Time of Cholera</I> sounding</A> like a Regency romance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-79468246943197897102007-08-02T15:55:00.000+01:002007-08-02T15:55:00.000+01:00I'm really glad you're enjoying it, Kathy. Your co...I'm really glad you're enjoying it, Kathy. <BR/><BR/>Your comment also got me thinking about me (yes, it seems it's always about me, even when I thought it wasn't ;-) ).<BR/><BR/>I suppose I am recommending books, or at least, I'm picking out some books in order to discuss something about them. I've sometimes blogged about novels which I personally didn't enjoy (or didn't enjoy very much from a readerly perspective), but which nonetheless were interesting for some reason (e.g. their theme, structure, or significance in the history of the genre). Unlike a reviewer, I don't attempt to give an outline of the plot and I don't give an explicit grade/mark/recommendation. But sometimes, as in this case, I probably come quite close to doing that.<BR/><BR/>When I've got my "academic hat" on (as opposed to my "just a reader" hat), I'm trying not to let my response to a novel be governed by my personal emotional reactions to a book, but it's bound to seep out round the edges, and it would be disingenuous for me to pretend otherwise. As is obvious from what I wrote about <I>More Than Love Letters</I>, this was a novel I very much enjoyed reading and re-reading.Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-3576324562325032222007-08-02T14:01:00.000+01:002007-08-02T14:01:00.000+01:00I just picked up this at the book shop in town, an...I just picked up this at the book shop in town, and meant to only read a few pages with my tea. I finished my tea and couldn't stop reading! Thanks for the recommendation. Can't wait to take out my contact lenses and really dig in!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-53327049103895805902007-07-30T23:19:00.000+01:002007-07-30T23:19:00.000+01:00The lack of a narrator also makes the reader more ...<I>The lack of a narrator also makes the reader more aware of playing that interpretive role.</I><BR/><BR/>I enjoyed the freedom of that, of being so obviously given the right to make up my own mind about the characters, of being handed a story with obvious gaps in it which I could fill in/interpret as I wished, and it made me aware of how much the point(s) of view from which a text is narrated affect the way the reader feels about the events in the novel. Just today I saw a <A HREF="http://lizfenwick.blogspot.com/2007/07/rna-conference-part-6.html" REL="nofollow">post at Liz Fenwick's blog</A> about the importance of point of view, in which she quotes Anita Burgh, who said that "controlling viewpoint is critical to success and decisions made about this can make or break a novel".<BR/><BR/>In an epistolary novel you can feel/see that process happening with more clarity than usual because, as you say, an epistolary novel can be considered inherently <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metafiction" REL="nofollow"> metatextual</A>.<BR/><BR/>There are obviously downsides to the form too. For one thing the author has to make sure that all the characters have someone to write to ;-) That wasn't a problem with these characters, though, because they obviously were the kind of people who enjoyed writing. <BR/><BR/>The epistolary form did mean that there weren't sex scenes. Some of it's described by the characters, but not in any detail. I didn't think it was a loss, because it definitely felt right for these characters, who are both quite reticent people. Also, although one loses out on "seeing" those particular moments, there's a strange emotional intensity to be gained from reading letters, even though they're fictional. In Austen's <I>Pride and Prejudice</I> and <I>Persuasion</I>, Darcy's letter to Elizabeth, and Wentworth's to Anne are, to me at least, the most intense parts of those novels because the letters somehow have a force, an emotional impact, derived from the fact that the reader accepts (at least while reading) that they're texts produced by the characters.<BR/><BR/>In <I>More Than Love Letters</I> Margaret says that there's something special about <BR/><BR/><I>the idea of having the paper that you touched, that you looked at while you thought of the words - and then the writing itself, telling me how you were feeling by whether the words are flowing along smoothly, or scrawled in a great rush, or uneven and halting</I>. (321)<BR/><BR/>It seems to me that fictional love letters retain something of that magic and personal connection, even when they're printed.<BR/><BR/>The remix is fun, and the final part of the video, where the camera pans out from the tiny little box-like rooms, each containing a person/a couple of people, to the huge ELVIS, made up of those little boxes, parallels what Rosy was saying about Richard's view of the political "big picture" which she contrasted with Margaret's very personalised connection to the issues and the individuals experiencing them.Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-16944189895305881352007-07-30T21:33:00.000+01:002007-07-30T21:33:00.000+01:00I enjoyed the JXL/Elvis remix. You've hit on an i...I enjoyed the JXL/Elvis remix. You've hit on an interesting similarity. Remixes are inherently "meta" in their form, and epistolary novels can be particularly explicit about being meta-texts.<BR/><BR/>There's the form, of course: the reader commenting on the author commenting on people commenting on events and themes. But in this case I mean there's a corollary to the Elvis remix, with its explicit layers of viewpoints. In epistles, point of view is very clear. Each epistle directly represents one character's viewpoint (or what she wants known of it), so the reader knows whose thoughts he's parsing (i.e. not the narrator's but a specific character's). The lack of a narrator also makes the reader more aware of playing that interpretive role. I can see why that structure reminded you of the remix.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-4672011762305190042007-07-30T13:52:00.000+01:002007-07-30T13:52:00.000+01:00Hi Laura,I definitely think you are right that the...Hi Laura,<BR/><BR/>I definitely think you are right that the asylum issues became more peripheral as I wrote. <BR/><BR/>And yes, Richard definitely begins the book badly in need of Margaret to remind him what the point of being in politics was in the first place!<BR/><BR/>RosyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-39451280439567528902007-07-30T10:36:00.000+01:002007-07-30T10:36:00.000+01:00‘Asylum’, indeed was my original title for the boo...<I>‘Asylum’, indeed was my original title for the book. The hostel at the heart of the novel functions as a kind of asylum in both the mental health and the more general, human meaning of the word.</I><BR/><BR/>I do recall Margaret's grandmother's comments on asylum, which reminded me of the Church offering sanctuary (seemed apt as Margaret's from a clerical family), and I did notice the ways in which the house helped not just the clients, but also volunteers such as Cora and the next-door-neighbour.<BR/><BR/>That said, I wonder if, as you wrote it, the balance shifted towards the love stories and so the issue of 'asylum' isn't quite so central now as when you first began? I think I recall Jennifer Crusie writing that <I>Welcome to Temptation</I> was originally going to be called <I>Hot Fleshy Thighs</I> and be an exploration of the issue of pornography, but it ended up as something different, and even though the pornography was still a very important theme, the balance within the novel had shifted towards the relationship/family dynamics between the heroine, the hero and his child.<BR/><BR/>Certainly Margaret, Richard and Becs aren't in need of asylum, and in general they're care givers (in their different ways), though of course they do need other people.<BR/><BR/><I>The other main theme I was trying to bring out was the tension between Margaret’s human scale political perspective and Richard’s broader, more instrumental outlook. At times, he is prepared to railroad over the needs of individuals in order to achieve larger changes – or in order to secure greater political power</I><BR/><BR/>The difference between Margaret and Richard's approaches does come across very clearly. What's perhaps not so clear is whether Richard is primarily interested in power for himself, or because he believes he can do more good once in a position of power. Richard and Michael's early letters actually reminded me of <I>The Screwtape Letters</I> (well, it's another epistolary novel, and it's very funny and it deals with internal politics and propaganda/spin). I suspect each reader will probably decide for her/himself quite where Richard's priorities lie, and of course they do change in the course of the novel.<BR/><BR/>I get the impression that, like John Thornton, Richard's (a) not very good at expressing his deeply felt emotions in a way which the public can understand and (b) he's got so focused on the big issues that he's perhaps overlooking the way in which a big issue is made up of individual cases.<BR/><BR/><I>the ‘compromises of power’ which the Left in Britain has faced since 1997.</I><BR/><BR/>Ah, now that could set me off on a long series of rants of the sort I usually direct at the radio. I shall restrain myself ;-)Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30203557.post-71636245624895403172007-07-30T09:33:00.000+01:002007-07-30T09:33:00.000+01:00Dear Laura,I read your analysis of my book with gr...Dear Laura,<BR/><BR/>I read your analysis of my book with great pleasure and interest.<BR/><BR/>I agree with you about the theme of interpretation or ‘spin’ within the novel – newspaper distortion, political spin, and different observers’ takes on events and texts. The epistolary format is certainly an easy way for a writer to show events from various perspectives – as well as being great fun to write!<BR/><BR/>It is so interesting to see what themes another person will highlight. For me, I suppose, alongside the above, the main theme I saw the book as centring upon was that of madness and asylum in many forms. ‘Asylum’, indeed was my original title for the book. The hostel at the heart of the novel functions as a kind of asylum in both the mental health and the more general, human meaning of the word. The books deals with political asylum, and many of the characters are seeking refuge from the events of their lives – perhaps most notably Margaret’s landlady, Cora.<BR/><BR/>The other main theme I was trying to bring out was the tension between Margaret’s human scale political perspective and Richard’s broader, more instrumental outlook. At times, he is prepared to railroad over the needs of individuals in order to achieve larger changes – or in order to secure greater political power, in order to be in a position to influence reform – whereas for her (at least in his view) there is no difference, as targets for her acrtivism, between global warming and dog fouling in the local park. This tension is the main way in which the novel is intended to parallel ‘North and South’. Gaskell’s novel is a romance where the love story between the two central characters runs alongside the story of their political rapprochement. There, too, the hero’s initial viewpoint (equated with male and ‘north’) is more global, with the needs of the enterprise taking precedence over those of the individuals mill workers, while the heroine is more concerned with the plight of individuals (a perspective which Gaskell equates with female and ‘south’). The argument about seemed to me to be very readily applicable to the ‘compromises of power’ which the Left in Britain has faced since 1997. <BR/><BR/>I fear this all sounds terribly pompous – it really is also just a light, romantic comedy!<BR/><BR/>Thanks for reading,<BR/><BR/>RosyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com